Neeraj Ghaywan: I am the only artist in the Hindi film industry who has acknowledged his Dalit identity (Exclusive)

“Even if you claim ownership to the term ‘coming out’, can you claim ownership to the act? So many people have hidden and then finally proclaimed their identities due to the fear of being judged. I hid my identity for 35 years, then suddenly spoke about it. People who never shied away from their identity and took the hate head on, their struggles were bigger. Look at (filmmaker) Nagraj Manjule, he inspires me. A part of me is Yashica, Nagraj, Bezwada… and so many people who don’t want to be named. Pallavi Menke is a sum of all of us, our pain and anguish. She is a symbol of the cumulative experience of all of us, so no one person can claim to be her” – Neeraj Ghaywan

BOMBAY TIMES EXCLUSIVE

Directed by Neeraj Ghaywan, one of the episodes of Made In Heaven (MIH) season 2, titled ‘The Heart Skipped A Beat’, featuring a Buddhist wedding, went on to become the series’ most acclaimed short. However, along with the appreciation came the credit crisis. While Neeraj thanked various people who inspired his episode in an Instagram post including activist and author Yashica Dutt, soon after, the latter questioned why she wasn’t given a formal credit on the show. She claimed the episode’s central character Pallavi Menke (played by Radhika Apte) was based on her life. Neeraj, known for his courageous vision and acclaimed films like Masaan, Geeli Pucchi (a short film where Konkona Sensharma plays a Dalit queer character) and Juice (a short on patriarchy starring Shefali Shah), for the first time, addresses the controversy, representation of Dalit characters in mainstream cinema and why pushing this narrative is so important. Excerpts…

Yashica has appreciated your work even before, and in a recent interview with us (after the series dropped) she said, “Neeraj Ghaywan’s work is important, but this is my life. I wasn’t acknowledged.” What is your reaction to that?

I have also championed Yashica’s work earlier. In the story, Pallavi Menke is a Maharashtrian Dalit from the Vidarbha region. She then goes to Columbia University (USA) and becomes an Ivy League professor. The episode is about her getting married to a man belonging to another caste, and how his family has issues with her (Buddhist) wedding ceremony. They are not in complete acceptance of her. They like her academic accolades but want to erase her caste identity. The episode handles this conflict. I don’t know how this is a homage to any one person. Even if you claim ownership to the term ‘coming out’, can you claim ownership to the act? So many people have hidden and then finally proclaimed their identities due to the fear of being judged. I hid my identity for 35 years, then suddenly spoke about it. People who never shied away from their identity and took the hate head on, their struggles were bigger. Look at (filmmaker) Nagraj Manjule, he inspires me. A part of me is Yashica, Nagraj, Bezwada… and so many people who don’t want to be named. Pallavi Menke is a sum of all of us, our pain and anguish. She is a symbol of the cumulative experience of all of us, so no one person can claim to be her.

Radhika Apte as Pallavi Menke in a still from Made in Heaven S2

So, your personal experiences and struggle with your identity is what translates on to your work?

Making this episode (MEH) for me has been a very personal journey. Zoya Akhtar, Reema Kagti and Alankrita Shrivastava are the writers of the show. They had this idea. Someone who’s accomplished from the Dalit community realises that they may have come a long way, but it doesn’t insulate them from the ugly face of casteism. We chatted the whole day and I talked about how I proclaimed my Dalit identity on Twitter, and you had broken that story. (A story by the same author featured in BOMBAY TIMES; January 7, 2018, titled, Neeraj Ghaywan: There was always this fear of my work being attributed to my identity as a Dalit). Before that happened, I hid my own identity in school, during my Engineering college, MBA days and even in my corporate life, because I have seen how people treat you when you come from a quota. My name was Neeraj Kumar and it’s still that on my passport. Now it’s become my middle name. (Pallavi Menke in the episode refers to caste neutral surnames like these). If you tell people your full name, they will scrutinise your last name, where are you from, which region, where are your parents from, etc. We know what they are getting at, and this kind of scrutiny scars you. I reclaimed my identity by going back to my surname and so does Pallavi.

A screenshot of Neeraj Ghaywan's 2018 interview with Bombay Times

What were your own battles after you proclaimed your Dalit identity?

After I spoke to Bombay Times in 2018, my extended family who hadn’t proclaimed their identity and were earlier proud of my work as a director, were also exposed. It was a bit complex for me because they weren’t happy about it. We used this track in the story, where Pallavi’s brother isn’t happy about her coming out. I opened up a lot about myself through this episode. I touched upon manual scavenging. Every achiever from the caste will have a story where their previous generations cleaned the toilets. I have heard these experiences from so many people including activist Bezwada Wilson, who is a pioneer in abolishing this practice. At some places, it has still not changed.

I must tell you this. When my house help of ten years saw your piece in Bombay Times (2018), she picked up the newspaper and asked me, Dada, hey kaay aahe? (What has been written?) I was scared to tell her what it meant. It took me 2-3 days to muster up the courage to tell her that I am a Dalit. She reacted, “Aap Jai Bhim wale ho? Mujhe fark nahi padta.” Same with my driver. It’s scary because you have been putting up a different picture for the world for years. Since the time you broke that piece, I haven’t spoken to anyone. Not even my school or office friends. I stopped going to my college reunion because no one reached out to me after knowing what I have been through. All this fear and trepidation came out when I spoke to the show creators, and all of this went into that episode.

Konkona Sensharma in Geeli Pucchi

Your decision to choose Konkona, a straight woman to essay gay character and Radhika Apte, a Brahmin woman to play a Dalit character was a topic of discussion. There’s an argument that on one hand you push for representation and on the other, actors from the community don’t find a place in these stories. What would you say to that?

My responsibility as a filmmaker is not just to be inclusive. The inclusion needs to make drama sense. The character must resonate with people and that needs a solid performance. I knew no one could play Konkona’s character in Geeli Pucchi better than her or Radhika’s character in MIH. Should I tell my stories efficiently or compromise on the casting to sound right and make a middling drama that no one will watch? Forget actors, I am the only artiste in the Hindi film industry who has acknowledged his Dalit identity. A lot of people don’t want to proclaim their identities. It’s their choice. If I do find newcomers who are open about their sexuality or caste, do they fit the part? You also need great actors to pull it off as these are complex characters.

You never shy away from making a political statement, through your feisty Dalit characters, who seek equality and not sympathy. We all are political beings, especially the ones belonging to the marginalised communities. It could be Dalits, women, LGBTQIA+, specially abled people or minorities, I am not talking about electoral politics but our relationship with the world and society and how it’s all connected. Their rights which have been denied are linked to the state. Their mere existence is a political statement.

Neeraj Ghaywan

‘The film industry is not casteist. They are caste ignorant’

The way it is structured, it is very local centric. Caste is not what is shown in Hindi movies of the 80’s, where someone says, “Tu paani waha se pina.” It is way different than that. It is a reality that exists even today in Mumbai, where all of us get public holidays, but not the safaai karmacharis (sweepers and garbage collectors). Have you ever seen your building trash not being taken? They don’t have a choice. There are filmmakers who are now addressing this, but there is a problem with the gaze. It exudes a saviour complex. When filmmakers who are not from the community tell (Dalit) stories, they have a patronising undertone. “Humne tumhara uddhar kar diya tum pe film banake. Praise me.” These films are not about the Dalit point of view. Dalit people become subjects here and not full-bodied characters with assertion, who can do other things beyond their caste markers. Patriarchy also exists in our community which needs to be called out. This conscience is slowly changing.

 ‘Calling it a Dalit wedding was wrong. It should have been called a ‘Buddhist wedding’’

When the response to MIH came in, something inside me changed. I got heartfelt reactions from people who thought they were finally seen and heard. Their trauma was acknowledged. The one thing that I want to humbly acknowledge is that we called it a Dalit wedding. That was wrong. It should have been called a ‘Buddhist wedding’.

A still from Masaan

 ‘I don’t want people to appreciate my work because it’s about a social cause’

People welcomed me with open arms once I revealed my identity. No one saw me differently, but this happened after Masaan. When I was making it, I didn’t tell anyone about it. I couldn’t even confide in Varun Grover, who was the film’s writer, I only told him later. Once I came through, people did not change their opinion of me. They only see my work and that’s how I want it to be. I don’t want people to appreciate my work because it’s about a social cause. I shouldn’t have to rely on the crutches of something political or marginalised characters to win brownie points. “Isnay important topic pe picture banaya, so appreciate karo.” I don’t want that. A film should be judged solely for its art, clear narrative, and great storytelling. I don’t want any tokenism.

Courtesy : TOI

Note: This news piece was originally published in timesofindia.com and used purely for non-profit/non-commercial purposes exclusively for Human Right